the debt ceiling limit, you can be at the point where at the beginning of the month, you can't send out social security checks on time. the last tame we got social security reform was 1983. why? because we weren't going to send the checks out on time. let's get real. >> but they are going to back down. that's why in the end they -- sounds great now. >> you think they're definitely going to do it. >> i think he'll go up to the brink and get cold feet and go to the sequester which comes up right after. i think the battle will be waged over that. this is the losing proposition. >> peggy. >> i think it should be noted we have a president. i think it should be noted that he should be sitting down and talking with those who would move -- attempt to move forward -- >> good point. >> -- on spending. i consider it unusual that this president can never make a deal with those folks. >> but this is not something to negotiate over. you do not negotiate with hostage-takers. that's the white house position. they're right about that. you just don't negotiate on this. you can negotiate on the sequester.